hard boiled eggs (no yolk) green grapes banana orange boiled chicken w/ tomatoes and carrots sweet potatoes broccoli whey protein w/ rice milk, strawberries, banana, blueberries chipotle salad w/ chicken, tomato salsa, corn, and cheese, little bit of dressing
Coffee with heavy cream Protein shake with coconut milk Tuna sashimi avocado cucumber salad tritip coffee string cheese 100% dark chocolate heavy cream + almond butter
eggs, blueberries, grilled chicken salad with citrus vinaigrette, cashew cookie lara bar, chicken and green beans (from a Chinese restaurant so probably not paleo sauce), almonds, banana chips, beef jerky
One egg with shredded pork, 1/2 avocado tapatio. 2 mandarin oranges. Apple cider vinegar honey hot water. Progenex recovery with water. 25 min AMRAPs make me hungry! -so many sweet potato chips, salsa, dried mango slices Leftover Coconut flour and spices chicken, spinach, 1/2 avocado, Sauerkraut, micro greens. Lara bar blueberry muffin Progenex more muscle with water Shrimp red pepper yellow pepper onion, spinach with olive oil and balsamic Dark chocolate
Protein/berry/pineapple smoothie Apple w almond butter Turkey bacons Chicken/sketti squash/zucchini salad Banana Egg bake squares Protein shake w almond milk
Even for being on the keto-paleo diet? Besides avocado, I'm having trouble finding things to increase the fat content in my diet for the keto portion of my diet.
Especially keto-Paleo. You and Dustin are both taking in heavy cream and cheese, which are still REALLY high in carbs... Not to mention that lactose causes blood sugar spikes. Almonds, walnuts, pistachios, almond butter, olive oil, coconut oil, olives, whole eggs, grass-fed fatty meats (stay away from salami and other cold cuts), ghee, and clarified butter are all solid choices for fat. Get. Away. From. The. Dairy.
Heavy cream has 6.5 carbs per cup with almost 900 calories / 88g fat. 1/2 Cup ~120mL is 3g carbs with about 450 calories / 44g fat.
Cheese is actually very low in carbs, especially in the harder cheese range. The lactose is fermented out in the cheese making process. Cheddar is 0.4 carbs/Oz while Mozzarella is 0.6 carbs/oz.
Avocados are about 320 calories with only 4 net carbs per avocado and 10g fiber. Almond butter is 3g/tbsp, pistachios and almonds are both about 3g / 25 nuts.
--
Here's a link to Mark's Daily Apple regarding dairy: http://www.marksdailyapple.com/dairy-insulin/#axzz2KNjOAj4b The short version is that insulin response to heavy cream and cheeses are minimal.
Another MDA link regarding coffee and insulin: http://www.marksdailyapple.com/coffee-and-insulin-fat-and-post-workout-meals/#axzz2KNjOAj4b
I completely agree and acknowledge that avocados are more nutrient rich than heavy cream calorie per calorie. But the reason I am using heavy cream and loading in the fat is specifically to get into the 65%+ range for fat consumption of my daily calories. Few foods are as fat dense and carb poor as heavy cream and cheese. Too much protein is a bad idea because of glyconeogenesis, too many carbs are unacceptable, and as much as I love cooking with olive oil and coconut oil they just don't go well with coffee.
The real bottom line to me is this: eating strict paleo previously had both Lisa and I putting on the pounds. Since starting a strict keto diet we both lost the expected fluid balance quickly then stalled. Once the fat content was increased substantially - with heavy cream and cheese - both of our plateaus have broken and the weight loss has become steady again. Since Jan 1 of this year I have dropped 17 lbs, Lisa is down 13.
I am willing to do more research tomorrow on a keto-paleo diet because I do know they exist but nuts cannot be emphasized as a cornerstone. Avocados are probably a viable option and we already cook with olive oil and coconut oil. I just want to make sure that anything I do is able to maintain my current results and keep me progressing. Have you lost weight with paleo or do you know people who have? What were the results like?
Ok, you can do things your way, and that is fine with me. However, keep in mind that this is a PALEO challenge and not a primal challenge. That website works under the assumption that you have tried removing lactose from your diet, and reintroduced it in a controlled manner in order to gauge tolerance. Not to mention that the sugar found in lactose (used in the fermentation process) is a HIGH GLYCEMIC SUGAR.
I seriously doubt that either you or lisa is coming close to eating enough protein to reach glycogenesis. And, by limiting the protein in your diet you can cause muscle loss which will cause weight loss. Nuts should not be the cornerstone of your diet. Lean, healthy raised animals should be - even in a ketogenic diet.
As for your final comment - I used to weigh 335 lbs. I have also tried every diet "fad" out there, including keto and IF. The best results I have ever seen, and the best results I have seen from my clients (mind you I have been coaching for more than six years) has been with some combination of paleo and Zone concepts. If you want to gain lean muscle mass and help your body survive the workouts that CrossFit is providing you, you need to understand the importance of hormonal balance and nutrient timing. It's not all about WEIGHT loss. That's just a number... go ahead and google the Twinkie diet. Seriously.
I'm not trying to be the least bit argumentative, I'm trying to learn. The last year is the first time I've ever been less than 200lbs and this last month is the only time I've ever even seen <190lbs in my memory. As much as "weight is just a number" this is the only time I've seen any real results. I also monitor my BF%, take monthly measurements, and at least keep a general idea of where my lifts are going. I have been progressing in these areas. I need to know why I am shooting myself in the foot and how so I can correct the problem. I do a lot of research on nutrition and it is very easy to find conflicting information so I usually have to make due with my own judgment.
I already own Sisson's Primal Blueprint so I had to check the difference between paleo and primal. Now that I've got a day off I'll try to make my diet paleo. No more cheese, coffee, or heavy cream. I'm picking up Robb Wolf's book.
I did a bit more research about gluconeogenesis and came up with this: http://www.ketotic.org/2012/08/if-you-eat-excess-protein-does-it-turn.html It looks like either there is a base rate regardless of conversion or GNG may not actually exist.
I checked the Zone website and had a hard time finding anything useful, same with the Amazon reviews. IIRC you mentioned in the last nutrition Q&A at 0500 that even '95 Sears said that paleo was superior to the zone. Is there anything in any of the several Zone books that make them worth purchasing or that cannot be found elsewhere for free? Are any of the books more or less strongly recommended?
You mentioned nutrient timing being important. Am I right in assuming that this is a Zone concept or did this come from elsewhere? Do you having any links I can take a look at regarding nutrient timing or could you break it down for me?
sweet potato cooked in grass fed butter with 3 eggs (not the same as when it's cooked in bacon) progenix recovery 5 eggs mushrooms avocado beef green beans broccoli banana almonds potato chips (ingredients: potatoes, olive oil, salt, so I don't consider this a cheat) salsa sun butter plantain chips progenix more muscle 3400mg fish oil
Eggs Strawberries Celery Almonds Almond butter Chicken Dark chocolate almond milk Water with lemon Salsa Avacado Vegetable mix-red & green cabbage, Brussel sprouts with bacon
Kyle Eggs Apple Bannana Orange Steak Asparogus Protein shake Salad with balsamic vinaigrette Veggie mix red and green cabbage Brussels sprouts and bacon Chicken Avacado Hard boiled eggs
Frozen berries
ReplyDelete0% Greek yogurt
Chicken breast
Avocado
Tomato
Almonds
Apple
Hard boiled eggs
Vitasport protein shake
Wild Mahi Mahi
Zucchini
Mushroom
Onion
Shallot
Olive Oil
Coffee
Coffeemate
Recovery, egg, turkey sausage orange, tchai tea, herbal tea, chicken, broccoli spaghetti squash, 1teaspoon lowfat Italian dressing, herbal tea; beefy jerky, dates, almonds, chicken, avocado, herbal tea, water all day…………….NO larabar today :(
ReplyDeleteI had a starbux passion fruit iced tea…no caffeine, no sweetener (I was hiding from my staff at Starbux)……..Any thoughts pro or con on it?
You're good with the passion tea!
DeleteThank you for the feedback Ronnie!!!!
DeleteWhey protein, banana, almond milk
ReplyDeleteground beef, red bell pepper, onion
cherry pie larabar
vegetable/ meatball soup
chicken sausage, brussel sprouts, mushroom, spinach, bacon
chicken breast, bacon, romaine lettuce, olive oil, white vinegar, lemon juice, steak seasoning
cantaloupe, strawberries, blueberries, gala apple w/ cinnamon
paleo sweet potato brownie
Chocolate Covered Cherry
banana
ReplyDeleteblackberries
coconut oil
mixed baby greens
whey protein
apple
almonds
red bell pepper
grilled chicken
eggs
romaine lettuce spinach
carrots
celery
mushrooms
cucumber
olive oil
watermelon
honeydew
cashews
ground turkey
green beans
oh it's Quinn btw
Deletehard boiled eggs (no yolk)
ReplyDeletegreen grapes
banana
orange
boiled chicken w/ tomatoes and carrots
sweet potatoes
broccoli
whey protein w/ rice milk, strawberries, banana, blueberries
chipotle salad w/ chicken, tomato salsa, corn, and cheese, little bit of dressing
Corn is a grain, and instead of rice milk try coconut milk.
DeleteAlmonds
ReplyDeleteChicken
Squash
Onions
Banana
Cherry pie bar
Coconut water
Carrots
Hard boiled eggs
Dark chocolate
Recovery drink, avocado, eggs, almonds, carrots, tuna salad no dressing, almonds, chicken, brussel sprouts,
ReplyDeletegrapefruit, banana, blueberries, raw cashews, cauliflower, ground turkey, skirt steak, tomato, grapes, tangerine, raw almonds, water, and herbal tea, water.
ReplyDelete2/6/13
ReplyDeleteEggs
Guacamole
Apple
Ground chicken
Onions
Banana egg "pancake"
Progenex
Coconut water
Beef jerky
Plantains
Salsa
Sausage
Mixed veggies
Coffee with heavy cream
ReplyDeleteProtein shake with coconut milk
Tuna sashimi
avocado
cucumber
salad
tritip
coffee
string cheese
100% dark chocolate
heavy cream + almond butter
2 Cake Pops at Starbucks, Chicken, carrot, Brock., cauliflower, pp, steak, orange tea, water, lean tri tip, handful of pretzels. lots of almonds
ReplyDeleteCake pops and pretzels are no good.
Deleteeggs, blueberries, grilled chicken salad with citrus vinaigrette, cashew cookie lara bar, chicken and green beans (from a Chinese restaurant so probably not paleo sauce), almonds, banana chips, beef jerky
ReplyDeleteFried Eggs
ReplyDeleteAlmond butter
herb Roasted turkey
sweet potato
zone bar
chicken
fajita vegetables
salsa
ground beef
green beans
mushrooms
+Progenex recovery and Fish oil
DeleteOne egg with shredded pork, 1/2 avocado tapatio. 2 mandarin oranges. Apple cider vinegar honey hot water.
ReplyDeleteProgenex recovery with water.
25 min AMRAPs make me hungry!
-so many sweet potato chips, salsa, dried mango slices
Leftover Coconut flour and spices chicken, spinach, 1/2 avocado, Sauerkraut, micro greens.
Lara bar blueberry muffin
Progenex more muscle with water
Shrimp red pepper yellow pepper onion, spinach with olive oil and balsamic
Dark chocolate
Steak
ReplyDeleteCarrots
Celery
Almond butter
Blackberries
Paleo "Happy Trail Mix"
Chicken breast
Green Peppers
Tomatillos
Zucchini
8 gazillion Zinc lozenges!!!! (cough, cough, cough)
Protein/berry/pineapple smoothie
ReplyDeleteApple w almond butter
Turkey bacons
Chicken/sketti squash/zucchini salad
Banana
Egg bake squares
Protein shake w almond milk
celery
ReplyDeletehamburger patty with mayo, mustard, olives, and cheese
string cheese
ranch seasoning flavored tritip
Wisconsin cheese curds
Mayo, cheese, and ranch are all definite no-go's.
DeleteEven for being on the keto-paleo diet? Besides avocado, I'm having trouble finding things to increase the fat content in my diet for the keto portion of my diet.
DeleteEspecially keto-Paleo. You and Dustin are both taking in heavy cream and cheese, which are still REALLY high in carbs... Not to mention that lactose causes blood sugar spikes. Almonds, walnuts, pistachios, almond butter, olive oil, coconut oil, olives, whole eggs, grass-fed fatty meats (stay away from salami and other cold cuts), ghee, and clarified butter are all solid choices for fat. Get. Away. From. The. Dairy.
DeleteClarification: cheese is high in carbs, cream has lactose.
DeleteOk. Thanks Ronnie. I'll stock our fridge up with those.
DeleteHeavy cream has 6.5 carbs per cup with almost 900 calories / 88g fat. 1/2 Cup ~120mL is 3g carbs with about 450 calories / 44g fat.
DeleteCheese is actually very low in carbs, especially in the harder cheese range. The lactose is fermented out in the cheese making process. Cheddar is 0.4 carbs/Oz while Mozzarella is 0.6 carbs/oz.
Avocados are about 320 calories with only 4 net carbs per avocado and 10g fiber. Almond butter is 3g/tbsp, pistachios and almonds are both about 3g / 25 nuts.
--
Here's a link to Mark's Daily Apple regarding dairy: http://www.marksdailyapple.com/dairy-insulin/#axzz2KNjOAj4b The short version is that insulin response to heavy cream and cheeses are minimal.
Another MDA link regarding coffee and insulin: http://www.marksdailyapple.com/coffee-and-insulin-fat-and-post-workout-meals/#axzz2KNjOAj4b
I completely agree and acknowledge that avocados are more nutrient rich than heavy cream calorie per calorie. But the reason I am using heavy cream and loading in the fat is specifically to get into the 65%+ range for fat consumption of my daily calories. Few foods are as fat dense and carb poor as heavy cream and cheese. Too much protein is a bad idea because of glyconeogenesis, too many carbs are unacceptable, and as much as I love cooking with olive oil and coconut oil they just don't go well with coffee.
The real bottom line to me is this: eating strict paleo previously had both Lisa and I putting on the pounds. Since starting a strict keto diet we both lost the expected fluid balance quickly then stalled. Once the fat content was increased substantially - with heavy cream and cheese - both of our plateaus have broken and the weight loss has become steady again. Since Jan 1 of this year I have dropped 17 lbs, Lisa is down 13.
I am willing to do more research tomorrow on a keto-paleo diet because I do know they exist but nuts cannot be emphasized as a cornerstone. Avocados are probably a viable option and we already cook with olive oil and coconut oil. I just want to make sure that anything I do is able to maintain my current results and keep me progressing. Have you lost weight with paleo or do you know people who have? What were the results like?
Ok, you can do things your way, and that is fine with me. However, keep in mind that this is a PALEO challenge and not a primal challenge. That website works under the assumption that you have tried removing lactose from your diet, and reintroduced it in a controlled manner in order to gauge tolerance. Not to mention that the sugar found in lactose (used in the fermentation process) is a HIGH GLYCEMIC SUGAR.
DeleteI seriously doubt that either you or lisa is coming close to eating enough protein to reach glycogenesis. And, by limiting the protein in your diet you can cause muscle loss which will cause weight loss. Nuts should not be the cornerstone of your diet. Lean, healthy raised animals should be - even in a ketogenic diet.
As for your final comment - I used to weigh 335 lbs. I have also tried every diet "fad" out there, including keto and IF. The best results I have ever seen, and the best results I have seen from my clients (mind you I have been coaching for more than six years) has been with some combination of paleo and Zone concepts. If you want to gain lean muscle mass and help your body survive the workouts that CrossFit is providing you, you need to understand the importance of hormonal balance and nutrient timing. It's not all about WEIGHT loss. That's just a number... go ahead and google the Twinkie diet. Seriously.
I'm not trying to be the least bit argumentative, I'm trying to learn. The last year is the first time I've ever been less than 200lbs and this last month is the only time I've ever even seen <190lbs in my memory. As much as "weight is just a number" this is the only time I've seen any real results. I also monitor my BF%, take monthly measurements, and at least keep a general idea of where my lifts are going. I have been progressing in these areas. I need to know why I am shooting myself in the foot and how so I can correct the problem. I do a lot of research on nutrition and it is very easy to find conflicting information so I usually have to make due with my own judgment.
DeleteI already own Sisson's Primal Blueprint so I had to check the difference between paleo and primal. Now that I've got a day off I'll try to make my diet paleo. No more cheese, coffee, or heavy cream. I'm picking up Robb Wolf's book.
I did a bit more research about gluconeogenesis and came up with this: http://www.ketotic.org/2012/08/if-you-eat-excess-protein-does-it-turn.html It looks like either there is a base rate regardless of conversion or GNG may not actually exist.
I checked the Zone website and had a hard time finding anything useful, same with the Amazon reviews. IIRC you mentioned in the last nutrition Q&A at 0500 that even '95 Sears said that paleo was superior to the zone. Is there anything in any of the several Zone books that make them worth purchasing or that cannot be found elsewhere for free? Are any of the books more or less strongly recommended?
You mentioned nutrient timing being important. Am I right in assuming that this is a Zone concept or did this come from elsewhere? Do you having any links I can take a look at regarding nutrient timing or could you break it down for me?
sweet potato cooked in grass fed butter with 3 eggs (not the same as when it's cooked in bacon)
ReplyDeleteprogenix recovery
5 eggs
mushrooms
avocado
beef
green beans
broccoli
banana
almonds
potato chips (ingredients: potatoes, olive oil, salt, so I don't consider this a cheat)
salsa
sun butter
plantain chips
progenix more muscle
3400mg fish oil
Eggs
ReplyDeleteStrawberries
Celery
Almonds
Almond butter
Chicken
Dark chocolate almond milk
Water with lemon
Salsa
Avacado
Vegetable mix-red & green cabbage, Brussel sprouts with bacon
celery, almond butter, turkey bacon, eggs, salad, avocado, tomato, chicken, some sort of gross seed bar that I'm never buying again! :), orange, almonds, dried cranberries, coffee, smoothie: cranberries, blueberries, banana, spinach, kale, OJ
ReplyDeleteToo many fruits, and stay away from juices!
DeleteKyle
ReplyDeleteEggs
Apple
Bannana
Orange
Steak
Asparogus
Protein shake
Salad with balsamic vinaigrette
Veggie mix red and green cabbage Brussels sprouts and bacon
Chicken
Avacado
Hard boiled eggs
Trail mix, potatoes, broccoli pork chops chicken breast carrots tuna banana apple protein powder
ReplyDeletetrail mix
ReplyDeleteapple
eggs
banana
strawberries
decaf coffee (honey and almond milk)
apple
ground turkey (kale, bell peppers, onion, olive oil)
broccoli
carrots
spinach
little steak jerky
avocado
Omlette, Raw tomato, broccoli, carrots, black tea, mushrooms,airborne, almonds, bananas (4), grapefruit, curry chicken, stir fried leaks w/mushrooms, honeydew, orange, airborne, water, chicken breast, broccoli, cabage, carrots.
ReplyDelete4 bananas?!?! That's like 100g of sugar!
Deleteeggs
ReplyDeletebacon
banana
apple
orange
chicken
salad w/balsamic vinaigrette
rocket fuel (pecans, almonds, walnuts, egg whites, honey)
steak
sweet potato chips in coconut oil
water